Rafa Watch

[Craig_H]

By that Logic though, Hodgson should have been given longer. But I take your point.

maybe I should've said 'proven manager' & stipulated about 'positive signs of improvement'

[Ben_Itez]

There would be division over any manger, there was over Kenny of all people so that's not an issue at all. I bet even if Mourinho was to take charge there would be a division, some people can never be pleased.

If Mourinho took charge i think there'd be the biggest divide of all.

Myself i would be devastated if he came anywhere near our club, the only other possible worse appointment would be the Bodge returning.

All IMHO of course.

[Mattshark]

maybe I should've said 'proven manager' & stipulated about 'positive signs of improvement'

It is questionable to whether we have seen that in the league this year though.

[Muddled]

It is questionable to whether we have seen that in the league this year though.

C'mon Matt, our performances have shown 'positive signs of improvement' under Kenny.

[Mattshark]

C'mon Matt, our performances have shown 'positive signs of improvement' under Kenny.

Compared to the latter half of last season? I really don't think so.

[Muddled]

Compared to the latter half of last season? I really don't think so.

The back end of last season was played on a high of Kenny returning, a new era under new owners and with no pressure of expectation; all Kenny had to do was get them to string three passes together and our play was infinitely better than what we had seen in the previous six months.

This season was always going to be one of transition - new personnel, a new style of play, new tactics etc - yet for the first half of the season, we played some great football, with just our ability to put the ball in the net lacking. Due to confidence or self-belief, we've lost our way a little recently, but we still have spells of showing what we're capable of - I think this will come with time and a little bit of tweaking in the summer.

[Craig_H]

It is questionable to whether we have seen that in the league this year though.

Those of us who have actually watched the games have.

[Mattshark]

The back end of last season was played on a high of Kenny returning, a new era under new owners and with no pressure of expectation; all Kenny had to do was get them to string three passes together and our play was infinitely better than what we had seen in the previous six months.

This season was always going to be one of transition - new personnel, a new style of play, new tactics etc - yet for the first half of the season, we played some great football, with just our ability to put the ball in the net lacking. Due to confidence or self-belief, we've lost our way a little recently, but we still have spells of showing what we're capable of - I think this will come with time and a little bit of tweaking in the summer.

We have become one dimensional and predictable and far too easy to defend against. We haven't gone forward, we are far less exciting to watch and despite the league getting weaker and us having a massive spend, we have not pushed on at all.

We have gone sideways at best.

[Mattshark]

Those of us who have actually watched the games have.

Don't be so stupid to suggest I haven't watched us play Craig.

[Craig_H]

Don't be so stupid to suggest I haven't watched us play Craig.

I wasnt. I was suggesting you watch a bit closer

[Mattshark]

I wasnt. I was suggesting you watch a bit closer

I have watched close enough, I am not happy with us in the league this season, I don't think we have pushed forward from last season in the league, I think we are not good enough and wasted an immense amount of money to fail to push on.

[Craig_H]

We have become one dimensional and predictable and far too easy to defend against. We haven't gone forward, we are far less exciting to watch and despite the league getting weaker and us having a massive spend, we have not pushed on at all.

We have gone sideways at best.

See, here's my problem and why i'm doing all this a bit tongue in cheek, where you're concerned. Because you're selective. Your memory of this season is selective. Deliberately or not, i dunno but it's very selective.

Firstly, it's inconceivable to take the best parts of January-May 2011 and expect that to be repeated at will forever more. It's beyond the realms of realism for that to happen.

Secondly, we went into the season trying to get several new players adjusted - to do that and not drop points while the adjustment happens, is also very optimistic.

I agree with you that some of the signings could have settled better, but what's gone is gone, we cant change that right now. Actually, i'm not sure if i agree with you because you generally seem to think all the news signings are just ****

But yeah, when you look at the bigger picture, the fact is that for about 90% of our games, we've been the better side. The goals havent flowed as much as they should but in terms of playing percentages, everyone knows if you play better than the opposition you're on the right track long term - and that's the case with us.

So yes, there has been improvement. It's not the finished article by any means, but like any work in progress there's ups and downs. Overall though, it's fairly clear to see that the general movement is an upward one and one of development.

If you want to go down the misery-guts road and just see everything as black and white with no grey areas, then fair enough, be downtrodden and follow a mindset that makes you miserable, negative and unhappy.

[Muddled]

We have become one dimensional and predictable and far too easy to defend against. We haven't gone forward, we are far less exciting to watch and despite the league getting weaker and us having a massive spend, we have not pushed on at all.

We have gone sideways at best.

I wouldn't say we are one dimensional, but would agree that we are easy to defend against. If we were one dimensional, you could argue that we play Carroll up top and ping it long and reap the rewards Newcastle got from him during the beginning of last season, yet we try and play from back to front and through our midfield.

As for the league getting weaker, I don't think that's the case - I think it is the teams in the Premier League are capable of causing upsets and points can be taken in any game - we will get better at picking up points playing badly with belief and a little patience, even Rafa needed four years to give us that never-say-die attitude.

[Gibbo]

I hate these Rafa vs (Insert manager here) debates because the same things just mentioned.

But yeah for the record the only thing I can pull between them is that I believe that Rafa would have spent the transfer money more wisely, and on better players.

That aside 18 months is waaaay to early to judge a manager, who are we the Chavs? We are goung through a rebuilding period and we only need a couple of players to get us flying again.

I love Rafa but I am happy with the way Kenny is taking us forward.

[Craig_H]

I have watched close enough, I am not happy with us in the league this season, I don't think we have pushed forward from last season in the league, I think we are not good enough and wasted an immense amount of money to fail to push on.

Then i would say you've brought your disappointment onto yourself with unrealistic expectations and aspirations. We're 4 points away from where we need to be, with a good run-in and our two main rivals for 4th due to play us at Anfield. Asking for significantly more than that isnt living within the realms of reality, in my humble opinion and if you insist on making your expectations so unrealistic, you'll ultimately never be happy and continue in a negative vein indefinitely due to your unrealistic hopes/expectations never being met.