Jordan Henderson

[Red_Polo]

He can't tackle. It will take a lot of work if that's to be his role.

[dww]

He can't tackle. It will take a lot of work if that's to be his role.

Many people said that about Lucas. Not sure I have the faith I did in him for Henderson but it seems far from impossible that he could learn. One of the questions is what to the management and Henderson see as the next stage in his progression.

[Lecter]

"Have and never will be" is a strong opinion to have. One which may very well bite you in the ass I think it will end up being his best position as he finds hit feet. (holding midfielder is different from a defensive midfielder)

I know holding player is different from defensive midfielder

Frankly I think he'll struggle to do both

[Shaggy]

He can't tackle. It will take a lot of work if that's to be his role.

Not sure if it's "can't" or "doesn't" but either way I agree.

[Lecter]

Many people said that about Lucas. Not sure I have the faith I did in him for Henderson but it seems far from impossible that he could learn. One of the questions is what to the management and Henderson see as the next stage in his progression.

The one thing Lucas had over him was positional discipline/intelligence

I dont see that in Hendersons play, nor Shelveys, nor Spearings, nor Adams, nor Gerrards

[Red_Polo]

Many people said that about Lucas. Not sure I have the faith I did in him for Henderson but it seems far from impossible that he could learn. One of the questions is what to the management and Henderson see as the next stage in his progression.

Sure. I'd say it took Lucas a fair bit of work too! I don't think it's impossible, but it would require a substantial reinvention. I like Henderson and I think similarities drawn with Lucas are pretty fair. I think he needs one set of coaching staff to bring him on with a particular vision in mind for a few years. He may or may not get that with us the way Lucas did.

[Havors]

The one thing Lucas had over him was positional discipline/intelligence

I dont see that in Hendersons play, nor Shelveys, nor Spearings, nor Adams, nor Gerrards

Took Lucas a long time to learn that. It comes with experience.

He has the potential to be great in either role. But at this current time he suits the holding role better than any to be honest. Whether thats the case as he develops remains to be seen.

[Mattshark]

Took Lucas a long time to learn that. It comes with experience.

He has the potential to be great in either role. But at this current time he suits the holding role better than any to be honest. Whether thats the case as he develops remains to be seen.

Lucas always had great positional sense mate.

[Lecter]

Took Lucas a long time to learn that. It comes with experience.

He has the potential to be great in either role. But at this current time he suits the holding role better than any to be honest. Whether thats the case as he develops remains to be seen.

Disagree with all of this

Lucas had the positional discipline/intelligence yes hes improved on it but he had the basics to work with

I disagree with the generalisation that it comes with experience. Alonso had it at 22, Gerrard still doesnt have it at 31

Some can learn it to a certain degree, others can improve on what they already have but very few actually go from zero to being really good at positional play

Henderson for me thats his biggest problem. Take Villa's goal as a case in point. A decent defensive midfield player wouldnt have let Herd run off him. A decent holding player would have been positioned so he was in front of and facing Herd

I think if you look at Henderson and his best performances for us, they have all come when he was playing higher up the pitch in a high tempo pressing role

Whenever hes been asked to play deeper he has disappointed

[Mostar]

He can't tackle. It will take a lot of work if that's to be his role.

Totally.

I do think he can significantly improve in that area as he has speed and agility to be a decent tackler but his technique is poor.

I think one of the problems is his zonal defending and not pressing enough but he can definitely be better one way or another.

[Muddled]

Jordan Henderson's tackle success rate drops from 92.59% when Gerrard does not start to only 63.64% when he does.

[paste]

[baitman]

holding midfielder is different from a defensive midfielder

could you clarify this, please.

[Havors]

could you clarify this, please.

A holding midfielder "holds" the midfield together and links up play between defense and attack. (Alonso)

A defensive midfielder breaks up the play and protects the back four (Makele/Lucas)

Obviously a player could play both roles they are not mutually exclusive but by definition they cover two different styles of midfield play.

A midfielder can be a holding/defensive midfielder and also a holding/playmaking midfielder.

That is all open to interpretation obviously

[Red_Polo]

Valid distinction to make, I think

However, I think you need an alternative to the term 'holding'. To me, holding refers to holding a deep position. Which would make a defensive midfielder a type of holding midfielder. If you get me

[Chris]

Boss!