Brendan Rodgers

[tanner]

I agree with all of that frank. Its frustrating to say the least.

I know that people had been banging on about not conceding goals in the opening games until West Ham, but I must have been watching different games as I thought the central defence was a bit of a shambles, as always, and it was far more luck than judgement that we didn't concede in at least one of the first few games.

Our play seems disjointed, goals seem to be coming from moments of magic rather than purposeful play and I fail to see where the creativity is coming from without Coutihno. When you then add to this the money we've spent, it just seems like a total mess. Surely you spend this money with a clear idea of building a specific type of footballing side? I don't think anyone knows what we're actually about at the moment.

[BobTheCharmer]

Imo clean slate provided and going on the first 4 games, its impossible to say where we are at. Benteke has looked more lively than most expected. Gomez looks a real player but we should expect him to make mistakes. He's learning the game. Milner looks a bloody good player. Clyne also looks good. That's 4 out of 5 new signings that have stood out for me. I also think when accessing performances you can almost discard stoke away. It's purely about the result from that place. We got it. 4 games even if we drew them all is far too early to base anything. Yet we have in stone 7 points. Utd have been woeful and they also have 7 points. Over the season we will see by our position whether we are or have improved.

[Exiled_red]

New players:
Milner, Clyne, Gomez and Benteke have all made promising starts, Firmino is taking a little longer to settle but that is not unexpected given all the lads mentioned previously have experience in the English game and PL (Gomez aside). We haven't seen much of Ings and Origi so we can't judge them yet. Based on what we have seen so far it looks promising for the new signings.

Tactics and System:
For me this is all over the place at the moment, the biggest concern I (and many others) had going into the summer was what system we were going to play and I still don't think we have come close to answering that yet. While the players we have signed look decent I am not convinced we signed the right type of players. At present we look a very narrow side with no width. We need width to stretch teams otherwise they can just come and park the bus and we'll probably not find a wat through. It is difficult to see where the width will come from though, Ibe is really the only wide player we have, Lallana could perhaps do a job out there as could one of the forwards Sturridge, Ings or Origi but Sturridge aside none of those would be in what you might consider or best 11. The other option is to try to use fullbacks for width, and that is fine for delivering crosses from deep but they aren't going to consistently get to the byline and cut balls back making use of the space at the top end of the pitch. Using fullbacks that push up so much opens the side up more defensively, and with the CBs we have that is a problem. For me if we wanted to play 4-3-3 we should have bought a dedicated wide forward.

The other main issue is support for Benteke, no one is getting close to him, he is winning alot of stuff in the air but there is no-one there to pick up the second ball, for me the role Coutinho is playing is a problem, Coutinho isn't an in the hole player, he doesn't look get alongside or beyond the striker, he wants to stay deep playing through balls, if that is the role we want him to play then he has to drop back into midfield and we need someone in the number 10 role who will make runs into the box and support Benteke. If we thing of it in terms of the 2009 side Coutinho is more an Alonso than a Gerrard type player if we are only playinng one striker we need some to play the Gerrard role, maybe that someone is Firmino I don't know I haven't seen enough of him.

[Doc_Piptorious]

Imo clean slate provided and going on the first 4 games, its impossible to say where we are at. Benteke has looked more lively than most expected. Gomez looks a real player but we should expect him to make mistakes. He's learning the game. Milner looks a bloody good player. Clyne also looks good. That's 4 out of 5 new signings that have stood out for me. I also think when accessing performances you can almost discard stoke away. It's purely about the result from that place. We got it. 4 games even if we drew them all is far too early to base anything. Yet we have in stone 7 points. Utd have been woeful and they also have 7 points. Over the season we will see by our position whether we are or have improved.

Don't think that very much in the above post could be argued against tbh.

The summer signings do, for the most part, look very promising from what we have seen so far, and our points tally from the opening games is not awful.

I agree with those that say that Rodgers needs to find a way to get us playing in a consistent manner and for us to have some sort of strategy/system/style that sits the players we have rather than chopping and changing wholescale a number of times during the season.

But four games is not enough for that to happen this season. Yes we can point at last season and the mismash of formations/tactics/styles, but at the same time we do need to let the new signings settle and see if Rodgers has actually learned anything from the mistakes of last season, and also see if he has learned from the positives of the season before that.

I have serious doubts about Rodgers at this stage, but no so many that I think it is beyond him to have us looking a threat to the top four contenders (if not being smack in the mix altogether) within the opening two or three months of the season.

For me it will take until we are 10 to 12 games into the season before I start hoping for the man to leave, but between now and then I am going to be crossing my fingers and waiting to see if he can prove me and many others wrong.

I know who I would like to see come in if Rodgers leaves (de Boer) but I like the idea of getting to Xmas and seeing all of us posting stuff about how Rodgers and the players have us looking like silverware plus a good league finish may be on the cards.

[frank the tank]

New players:
Milner, Clyne, Gomez and Benteke have all made promising starts, Firmino is taking a little longer to settle but that is not unexpected given all the lads mentioned previously have experience in the English game and PL (Gomez aside). We haven't seen much of Ings and Origi so we can't judge them yet. Based on what we have seen so far it looks promising for the new signings.

Tactics and System:
For me this is all over the place at the moment, the biggest concern I (and many others) had going into the summer was what system we were going to play and I still don't think we have come close to answering that yet. While the players we have signed look decent I am not convinced we signed the right type of players. At present we look a very narrow side with no width. We need width to stretch teams otherwise they can just come and park the bus and we'll probably not find a wat through. It is difficult to see where the width will come from though, Ibe is really the only wide player we have, Lallana could perhaps do a job out there as could one of the forwards Sturridge, Ings or Origi but Sturridge aside none of those would be in what you might consider or best 11. The other option is to try to use fullbacks for width, and that is fine for delivering crosses from deep but they aren't going to consistently get to the byline and cut balls back making use of the space at the top end of the pitch. Using fullbacks that push up so much opens the side up more defensively, and with the CBs we have that is a problem. For me if we wanted to play 4-3-3 we should have bought a dedicated wide forward.

The other main issue is support for Benteke, no one is getting close to him, he is winning alot of stuff in the air but there is no-one there to pick up the second ball, for me the role Coutinho is playing is a problem, Coutinho isn't an in the hole player, he doesn't look get alongside or beyond the striker, he wants to stay deep playing through balls, if that is the role we want him to play then he has to drop back into midfield and we need someone in the number 10 role who will make runs into the box and support Benteke. If we thing of it in terms of the 2009 side Coutinho is more an Alonso than a Gerrard type player if we are only playinng one striker we need some to play the Gerrard role, maybe that someone is Firmino I don't know I haven't seen enough of him.

I really thought with the players we had signed this summer, Brendan was going to look to play the diamond formation as our default tactics.


So against "smaller" teams, we would see something like:


--------------------------------MIGNOLET------------------------------------

CLYNE----------SKRTEL---------------------SAKHO----------------MORENO

---------------------------------MILNER--------------------------------------

----------------HENDERSON-------------COUTINHO------------------------

---------------------------------FIRMINO------------------------------------

-------------STURRIDGE--------------------BENTEKE-----------------------


And then in the bigger games, it would be something like:

--------------------------------MIGNOLET------------------------------------

CLYNE----------SKRTEL---------------------SAKHO----------------MORENO

--------------------------------LUCAS / CAN---------------------------------

----------------HENDERSON---------------MILNER--------------------------

--------------------------------COUTINHO-----------------------------------

-------------STURRIDGE--------------------BENTEKE-----------------------



With 2 full backs that can really get forward, 2 very energetic midfielders in Hendo and Milner that can cover for the full backs and take turns to join the attack - and sturridge (and to a lesser extent) Benteke that can go wide when needed as well. I think this formation gives someone Coutinho 3 players in front of him, - plus a attacking full back and a Hendo / Milner midfield runner - to hurt the opposition when we counter attack. And against the smaller teams, it gives Firmino a bit of a free role to find positions as well.

And with Ings, Origi, Ibe, Lallana all to provide attacking impotus from the bench if required - as well as the likes of Lucas and Emre Can providing strenght in depth in midfield - then we have a squad that in my view, should be able to compete.

I would like to see us set up that way pretty much every game to be honest. And also in the europa / capital one games too - with other players stepping in to give the first teamers a rest.


It is the lack of consistent approach that is doing my head in. When I saw the 3 centre backs coming back against West Ham in the second half the last game, that was very frustrating (West Ham had their 2 goal lead, we should have played 2 centre backs, with both our full backs almost like wingers).

Why buy Ings and Origi if they aren't even going to get a game when Sturridge is injured???

[Roboklopp]

My big frustration with Brendan is that we don't seem to keep the strategy of how we play consistent. If you look at his tenure as a whole, then he has changed strategy a number of times. Obviously there are specific instances / games where a manager needs to tweak his tactical approach, but i actually find it hard to pinpoint the LFC team identity now.

Are we a team that strives to keep the ball? It looked like we would be when Brendan first walked in. Remember a few games into his tenure, Brendan came out in support of Skrtel after he ****ed up against Man City.....because "he was trying to play the right way". Well fast forward 3 years and the instructions to the likes of Skrtel if he was under pressure would be to just hit it long to Benteke.

Are we a team that likes to have a big man up front that brings others into play??? Again remember 3 years ago and a £35m player (cost, not value!) was discarded. It didn't matter how much he cost because he simply wouldn't fit into our style of play. Fast forward 3 years and we spent £32.5m on a player that is obviously far better than Andy Carroll, but one of the objectives of his signing was that he could bring something different to the team.....that he could bring others into play. But the team still doesn't get the ball to the byline and cross it into the box...... so we have this £32.5m signing and we aren't even looking to play to his strenghts. It already looks like Benteke has been signed and included so that he can help get the best out of the likes of Coutinho.

Do we play with wingers?? Not really. We are most likely to get the width in our team from full back areas.....but that didn't stop us buying the likes of £20m Markovic and then loaning him out after he didn't do unreal at left back.

I would just like to see the team have a strong identity. All of the teams that we aspire to be rivals on the pitch to - both in the Premier League and in Europe - at least they all have that. And to be honest, i think Brendan stands the best chance of being a success at LFC if he instills that into the team....


For me, the best thing that Brendan has achieved over his tenure has been to introduce young players into the team.

The two big failures over his tenure have been:
(a) the transfer dealings
(b) the fact that the ship seems to be changing course every couple of months

He might be able to get a pass on (a) because he has brought in **** loads of money from Sterling and Suarez (although if it was any of the top 5 clubs in england, they'd have managed to get over £100m for Luis). Brendan made both of these players much better than before - and as such added value to the squad. He has done the same with Coutinho and Sturridge.

On the team identity though, i think that is what is going to get him the sack in the end. I hope i am wrong but I just can't see how he can chop and change so much and still get any level of consistency. It is almost like we have such an imbalanced squad now and BR is looking to get them all to fit in.

[DannyMan2006]

The problem for Rodgers is that no one can see what he's trying to do. People will be patient if there's a clear plan. People will also be patient if we are getting results. Neither apply. 8 points from 12 is the minimum required imo. 7 just isn't good enough.

We've also only got one out of three seasons under him where we have actually looked like a good team. It's not like he's been mainly successful and is having a blip. Nor has he any past history to point to where he has built up a team capable of challenging on all fronts.

In fact, the only leg he's now standing on is the one where we can point to other big clubs who've also had a poor start. As in everything will be fine because the other clubs aren't too far ahead. Another problem for him is we have some tricky fixtures coming up, and if we don't radically improve he will no longer have this final point to fall back on.

It may be harsh to sack Rodgers if we aren't keeping pace at Xmas. We've been dealt a very tough start. But it would be fair. He's had more than enough time and he can't moan about not having the finances to compete with others. We've blown millions under his stewardship.

Is the time right to sack him now? No. We had that chance in the summer and choose not to take it. Now we have to see what he can do. When the Reds win, we all win. So let's back him and see if he can implicate his ideas.

[Fosterbloke]

I'm sure the mood will be different if we displayed the first 45 minutes at Arsenal over the whole game at Utd and won the match.

[Robbie-9-Fowler]

I'm sure the mood will be different if we displayed the first 45 minutes at Arsenal over the whole game at Utd and won the match.

Well, yes. But that is very, very unlikely. A trait of Rodgers time at Liverpool has been not being able to put 2 halves together very often.

[The_weatherman]

I'm sure the mood will be different if we displayed the first 45 minutes at Arsenal over the whole game at Utd and won the match.

Absolutely, but the post by DannMan is pretty much spot on, but the situation now is that FSG backed the manager but he is under immense pressure, we have to give some minimum amount of time to impress, but the bad moments will be extra bad now during that time.

[fidget]

They've "backed him" to the tune of less than £20m.
The balance sheet looks great.
Can't help thinking there's something in the works sale wise.

[Exiled_red]

The problem for Rodgers is that no one can see what he's trying to do. People will be patient if there's a clear plan. People will also be patient if we are getting results. Neither apply. 8 points from 12 is the minimum required imo. 7 just isn't good enough.

We've also only got one out of three seasons under him where we have actually looked like a good team. It's not like he's been mainly successful and is having a blip. Nor has he any past history to point to where he has built up a team capable of challenging on all fronts.

In fact, the only leg he's now standing on is the one where we can point to other big clubs who've also had a poor start. As in everything will be fine because the other clubs aren't too far ahead. Another problem for him is we have some tricky fixtures coming up, and if we don't radically improve he will no longer have this final point to fall back on.

It may be harsh to sack Rodgers if we aren't keeping pace at Xmas. We've been dealt a very tough start. But it would be fair. He's had more than enough time and he can't moan about not having the finances to compete with others. We've blown millions under his stewardship.

Is the time right to sack him now? No. We had that chance in the summer and choose not to take it. Now we have to see what he can do. When the Reds win, we all win. So let's back him and see if he can implicate his ideas.

I agree with the bit in bold, people would have more time/patience with him if the plan was clear, However I would say that it is some what harsh to say we aren't getting results, up to the West Ham game, things were fine I think most people would have taken 7 points from those 3 games. Is the West Ham game a one off? - At this point it is too early to tell. There had been some underlying issues in the previous games which were exposed significantly against West Ham - were we lucky in those previous games or just poor against West Ham for me the answer is a bit of both.

As I have said previously Rodgers will be given the full season unless we undergo some Hodgson-style run - which with our tough run of away games means that a few poor home results would make that type of situation more likely than normal, but if the owners take into account the difficult games they might be more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt if the performance are good in those games even if the results aren't.

[Roboklopp]

They've "backed him" to the tune of less than £20m.
The balance sheet looks great.
Can't help thinking there's something in the works sale wise.

Ir they could be holding £s back for next summer for him I'd he proves himself / another manger if be don't:

[Roboklopp]

Put it this way, I remember the days when you could get Diouf, Dial & Cheyrou for £30m. Can't even get that now

[DannyMan2006]

I agree with the bit in bold, people would have more time/patience with him if the plan was clear, However I would say that it is some what harsh to say we aren't getting results, up to the West Ham game, things were fine I think most people would have taken 7 points from those 3 games. Is the West Ham game a one off? - At this point it is too early to tell. There had been some underlying issues in the previous games which were exposed significantly against West Ham - were we lucky in those previous games or just poor against West Ham for me the answer is a bit of both.

As I have said previously Rodgers will be given the full season unless we undergo some Hodgson-style run - which with our tough run of away games means that a few poor home results would make that type of situation more likely than normal, but if the owners take into account the difficult games they might be more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt if the performance are good in those games even if the results aren't.

I was delighted with 6 from 6. We were lucky, but if you get the result it doesn't matter. I would've taken a draw at the Emirates, we were brilliant that first half, it was like the LFC of 13/14 in many ways just lacking that killer touch. But it gave me hope.

I didn't expect to roll West Ham over, but I did expect to win. To lose was a real hammer blow, excuse the pun. For me we need to beat United to get back on track. In all honesty a draw wouldn't be the end of the world, but if we end up with 10 from 15 after that game we're looking good for a top 4 challenge & can write off West Ham as a bad day at the office.

The problem with losing to ****e like West Ham is it puts pressure on games where we'd normally be happy with a point. The way we've set up we look better suited to defending quite deep and then hitting on the counter with pressing high up thrown in, then dropping into a solid shape if we don't win it high up. So maybe playing United away will suit us.

Wouldn't surprise me if we beat them. But even if we do, we need to start figuring out how to break down a wall of defenders at Anfield without having to play with fire and get killed on a quick counter.